Pig Industry - Design of Biodigestor - Management


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13/06/2006

Pablo Infants Chávez
Peru

Dear Alpaquero: contínuamente in the forum reads orders of planes for biodigestores construction. The problem resides, I lower my optics that some planes help a little. Firstly, we don't know if the biodigestor capacity satisfies the user's requirements, very big, very small, not all those undone organic they produce same quantity of biogas, those undone organic that are not you excrete it should be subjected to a treatment -by milled example - so that the bacterias have bigger surface to feed, and they can produce this way gas with more easiness. Are designs many, which is the appropriate one for a reality? It would be necessary to analyze it. The biogas before being an employee should be subjected to a desulfatado treatment, dehydrated as much as possible. The digestor should be built calculating the pressure of the gas that should resist, that as for the digestores of the rural type that work without heating, and that in cold climates, the bacterias many times they die disabling the system.
Personally I possess great variety of designs, but I believe that before building it it should be conversed with a specialist. BECAUSE IF ONE doesn't KNOW TO WHERE he/she GOES, it should not BE ASTONISHED IF it ARRIVES TO ANOTHER SIDE.

27/07/2006

Omar Put
Peru

Engineer Cristhian: I am of Piura. At the moment I have presented a design for a biodigestor by way of test. I hope to have their mail to send him my advances, and to see if I have some accident so that he/she helps me. The biodigestor is for the National University of Piura.
Thank you ahead of time for their collaboration.

22/08/2006

Pamela Maturana
Chile

Mr. Cristian Rodríguez,
He/she wanted to make him a consultation. I know that this forum is of Pig Industry, but I have noticed that they know much of biodigestores, for what wanted to know if he/she can help me with this question:
Can the biodigestor be used in a plant acuícola, to treat the silts, besides the waste generated by the task???
And does a biodigestor aeróbico exist?? Because I only have information of biodigestor anaeróbico.
He/she would thank if I could respond, and perhaps to contact us through the internal mail.

24/08/2006

Hernando King
Chile

he/she Wanted to ask a question:
The truth needs to design a biodigestor for a dairy. He/she wanted to know what design types and how the proportion of pure organic matter is calculated, versus the proportions and the same design of the biodigestor. Thank you.

07/09/2006

Christian Rodriguez
Peru

Omar, would love me to be able to lean on in your development. Look for I eat up Green Energy in the companies of Engormix. And it counts on me to analyze your results.

07/09/2006

Christian Rodriguez
Peru

Srta Pamela Maturana:
Thank you for the compliments! Doesn't one have a lot of information well, on you plant acuícolas (will he/she refer to Canning Plants, Procesadoras or of Flour?), because they are few having those that have adopted a system anaeróbico, preferred more conventional treatment technologies, and because the fact of being many near times to the Sea, has it allowed them to evacuate their Liquid Residuals by means of a submarine originator (and because the nobility of the Sea, accepts and does it dilute what is...).
However, it is possible to use methods anaeróbicos to treat efluentes, provided they take into account the following points:

to) Saline Concentration. The salt can be being a powerful pollutant that can even brake the action of the bacterias acetogénicas. High concentrations can give cause to increase the times of retention until being impractical.

b) Control of Relationship Carbon - Nitrogen - Match. A desbalance of these three factors, it can reduce the effectiveness of the degradation anaeróbica largely.

c) Use of Chlorine like material of cleaning. The use of hipoclorito in a systematic way, allows the destruction of the bacterias, what will also happen with those stored in our digestor. Some methods should be adopted to allow the flight of this, before entering to the digestores.

d) fatty Acids and pH. A good pursuit of these two factors should be made, since although the fatty acids are part of the chain of conversion Protein / Methane, is very probable that are creating dangerous falls of the pH, for what the monitoreo systems and correction should be reinforced.

In case that requires an amplification to the topic, I will be charmed of responding him. Serve you to communicate to my company Green Energy.

07/09/2006

Christian Rodriguez
Peru

Hernando:

A dairy is a TYPICAL case for a digestor anaeróbico, with possibilities of adding an aerobic system to supplement the efficiency of removal of DBO (it Demands Biochemistry of Oxygen). The milk that is a cocktail of proteins, oils and sugars, it is an interesting case because they exist a series of parameters that you/they should be observed for the same design, beginning with the flow and the efluentes analysis (it is usually high in oil). To this, it should be added that the quantity of carbon is relatively low, for what is recommended to compensate that deficit. Another important point, is that the milk, rather the lactic acid, is a powerful corrosive of the constructions of concrete, for what all this takes you to use materials as the PVC, the HDPE and the PRFV.
Now then, the design is based more on indicators as the DBO and the DQO, as well as the present solids. The term pure matter is not used because it is not excellent for the calculations. Now then, in a previous mail I presented the cases of typical digestores, because each one of them presents a reaction kinetics, understanding each other the degradation process like a bacterial reaction, subject to the law of Monod. As you see, it is not so simple the calculation, for what would recommend you to identify some parameters, and based on it to go deciding.

For example:
Flow of the efluente
Tipificación of the Efluente - pH, Temperature, Suspended Solids, Total Solids, DBO, DQO, Oils and Fatty
Is it only wanted to obtain methane or to be part of a process of efluente treatment?

I believe that with those questions, one can give beginning to a good analysis. And believe me that each one of those data voucher their weight in gold when designing. They avoid you a series of problems that can take to collapse a plant (it sews more common of what imagines), and especially, to fulfill the purpose of the same one.

07/09/2006

Hernando King
Chile

thank you to respond, Sr Christian Rodriguez.

The truth writes him to explain to him in more detail, what I asked him the other day, there goes.
The dairy at the moment takes place, apart from milk clearly, 7 tons of excrement a day, besides the urine and the water that use to clean the places where are these animals, reason why, God willing I can be what parameters I need to know, in what refers to the design of the biodigestor, since with regard to the materials and of the proportions of this, starting from the available organic matter, I was not very clear.
In these moments, the residuals don't have any use, they are only accumulated in a hole in the earth 5 meters deep, causing bad scent in the near areas.

Also to count him that my final idea is, to project this biodigestor for the methane production, and the later transformation in electric power.

He/she wanted to know if there is some private mail to contact me with you.

Waiting their answer and thanking him for everything says goodbye sincerely.

Hernando King C.

07/09/2006

Christian Rodriguez
Peru

Ok Hernando King.
The first thing that you should discover is the VOLUME (or flow) efluente newspaper. All biodigestor is designed based on the HYDRAULIC TIME OF RETENTION (TRH), and in certain cases, at the TIME OF CELLULAR RETENTION (TRC). This last he/she goes of the hand of the concentration of solids in the efluente, and of the analysis mentioned previously. In any laboratory that analyzes waters, they can give you that service. If you offer me these data, I can give you a preliminary design. Eye that that mixture of waters of cleaning, manures and milky residuals, it is PERFECT for a biodigestor. In similar projects in South America, they have given times of capital return between 26 and 35 months (depending on the costs of the GN or GLP). Usually in my presentations, I include a projected box flow, with the operation costs and maintenance.

10/09/2006

edgard durand
Peru

Greetings to all. He/she wanted to know if it is possible the storage of the biogas with commercial ends. At the moment we manage a farm of rabbits and guinea pigs, with that which you/they take place organic many waste, which are good for the production of BIOGAS. But we wanted to guide it to the commercialization to these rural areas, that is to say, with a compresora to pack the biogas and to sell it to smaller price that the commercial gas, since we are located in an area where there is not electricity and the balls of gas arrive with 2-3 surcharge suns for the transport (30-32 suns)... is this possible?? how cares should be had? with what teams to count??
Greetings.

EDGARD DURAND A.
Farm COLOSSUS

10/09/2006

Christian Rodriguez
Peru

Greetings Edgar.
THE topic of the TRANSPORT of the Biogas is a topic delicate sumamamente. Not only because it is a fuel (and therefore affection to all the regulations of OSINERG, here in Peru), but because it is difficult to work him in balls. A lot of energy is required to compress it, and this is translated in metallic containers of thick thickness to contain it. Since the Biogas is 70 Methane, that that more Preposition it is the Natural Gas that is transported by pipes. Unless the volumes are really small (we speak of liters), that it is the recommendation that is always made for their transfer.
If their location is remote, the possibility exists of spreading a net of pipes, although observing the regulations for natural gas. On the other hand, if the volumes of biogas are regular (we speak of hundred of cubic meters), one can think of producing electric power, which is much more practical of consuming y/o to transport. In any event, I can offer him to study their case to see the viability of their project, so that the biggest profit in the generated biogas is taken out.
To serve it.

10/09/2006

edgard durand
Peru

Hello Christian, thank you to respond. You are right with regard to the transport. But there is a detail: the idea that I have is the one of packing at once and not necessarily in conventional balls of gas, but I have seen that they are packing in cameras of truck tire, or to look for some alternative, or in any event to also use the balls, but with a smaller quantity of gas to take into account that of the compression, and for ende the price would be smaller because there is less gas.
I mention you this because one could give that somebody wants to buy this gas and it could arrive at my farm and at once to pack it, and in turn the buyer almost at once to begin to use it.
It is the idea that I have in mind like to try to recover the investment that will demand the biodigestor... since peacefully I will have a surplus of biogas for the quantity of guano taken place in the farm per day.
I thank you the answer... greetings.

Edgard

11/09/2006

Christian Rodriguez
Peru

Edgard:
Doesn't the idea sound bad, but is the topic how much you will pack 1 m3, 2 m3, 5 m3?
I have seen systems of having packed from gas to low pressure, but they never pass of the 5 m3, because very VOLUMINOUS resuta, and the transport is complicated. If they are planning to work with those individual volumes, I have the perfect alternative. Perhaps accustoming the consumers to stuff their container each 2 or 3 days. It can be. As I mentioned previously, I would point to look for a medium consumer of energy and it would install him a line. Some milkmaid (that carries out pasteurized) or some potter (perhaps a handmade ladrillera), they could be interesting clients. Eye, I don't discard the alternative to the minoreo, but it is more practical to have a client that 20. As for costs of Digestores, there is of everything. From alternative of 10 dollars until of 300 (for a family of 4 people). It looks for my data in the company Green Energy, and I can get ready something very practical and economic... eye that in the topic of gas for domestic consumption, one has to regulate the content of sour Sulfhídrico (scent to rotten egg). More than 5ppm it is offensive (although it is a good sign of alert in the event of flight), but to many it will change him the spirit if they receive a gas with fellow man it perfumes.
On purpose, why area is he/she your farm?

11/09/2006

edgard durand
Peru

Hello again Christian. What happens is that I guide myself to the minoreo idea because my idea is to make business and to help at the same time... it seems contradictory, but better I explain to you... would not a great saving be for a family that buys a ball of gas to 32 suns every 25-30 days, buying the same ball of gas or the content to 20 suns??? or maybe less?...
The area where I am located it is depressed super with regard to people's purchasing power and work lack... it is for that reason that I think of that commercialization type instead of placing him the gas to a company or industry that what will take out is to lower costs and to win more... because I don't believe that when lowering in something their cost they lower the price of sale of their product at the same time...
Good, that it is the idea that I have... With regard to the designs that you sell, I am interested in acquiring one of these teams, but in fact it won't be for family consumption... he/she has to be something medium. I will see the data of your company to give you a call and to coordinate so that you quote me and to find out more than the topic.
Greetings.

Edgard

My farm is located in the km. 29 of the T. Amaru. This is Carabayllo.

15/09/2006

edgard durand
Peru

Hello Crhistian. How I can make to contact your company. I need a rate of a biodigestor for self-consumption and to feed a group electrógeno... I was looking for your company like green Energy, and one that sells veterinary products comes out. Is the same one??... Are you in the yellow pages??
Greetings.

Edgard

15/09/2006

Pablo Infants Chávez
Peru

Dear friends: I have read the restlessness of one from the participants to the forum on the one packed of the biogas. This process is technically feasible, but it is required of previous steps. As all we know, the biogas contains sulfurous anhydride in a quantity that arrives until the 5,000 ppm that make in percentage around the 2 according to the one undone organic of which comes. It also contains humidity. Their methane content can arrive up to the 70 (percent, seems that the system erases the percent sign), and the rest is dioxide of carbon. If I lower these circumstances it is wanted to liquefy this gas, a minimum of 200 bar of pressure is required, for it compressors of high technology and very potent, amen that the system will last him very little time because the sulfurous anhydride will destroy the compressor and the steel of the bottles.
That that at the moment is made it is first to dry the biogas by means of a refrigeration system that will condense all the humidity, to clean the biogas of the sulfurous anhydride by means of laundry systems or through filters containing Oxidizes Ferric, of what is it is to go down from 5,000 to 100 ppm of sulfurous anhydride, acceptable content for the systems of electric conversion. Then it is necessary to separate the dioxide of carbon of the methane, with we obtain it methane like the camisea gas. This methane if it can be liquefied to only around 60 Bar of pressure, and it is what is made to serve to the tractors and self-driven vehicles that have rotated for the freeways of Germany for a good time. In the last times the methane coming from the biogas is pumping to the gaseoductos of the cities for its domestic use.
This system is only profitable when it is to liquefy big quantities of biogas, otherwise neither to enter.
What is made in the biodigestores complex that I have built is to use a turbine, built for this end, with which we pump the biogas until a distance of 5 kms. where they are the last galpones of chickens BB.
I thank the interest of the partner of the forum to want to help to the poorest that so much need it.

16/09/2006

Christian Rodriguez
Peru

Edgar:

If you have problems with finding my enpresa in Engormix, I recommend you you look for me in the page of Perulactea, or if not directly in any searcher. For political of this forum, I cannot give you directly my number. Those are the rules of this page and I accept them. Anyway, I will try to solve the problem for the one which, at the moment I don't appear in the list of Engormix.
Now, with regard to the comment of the sr. Infants, this reinforces the previously this envelope the topic in another mail.
I hope to know soon about you.
Greetings.

17/09/2006

Ubaldo Gonzaléz Karla Yesel
Mexico

Hello. In these moments I am very interested in the production of a biodigestor, and this way to demonstrate that I am able to be able to carry out the production of natural gas that I seek it is used for stoves. If somebody is in the disposition of helping me, please write me, he/she would thank him and perhaps it could be of great help you and their knowledge.

22/09/2006

enrique vilcapaza luque
Peru

Hello friends. He/she wanted to know more envelope the biogas, but to take it to the social field, like it is known, the fuel is one of the elements that wastes away to newspaper, and there being poverty believes that as the biodigestores it is something common in China and in almost the whole Asia, because they have the culture of the gas, it would be opportune to inculcate in our people this system. I would like somebody to inform me more than how to build it handmadely. Thank you.

29/09/2006

RAHEL GOLDRINGER RODRIGUEZ
Colombia

I am inscribed Engormix, and I have never been able to lower the content of any article to confront the knowledge. Please, send me the indications to consent to this service. Thank you.

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