Pig Industry - Crossing of Pic with York or Landrace - Genetics


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29/07/2003

Engormix.com
Argentina

Crossing of Pic with York or Landrace

I Need to know if it is good the crossing between a MALE PIC and female YORK or LANDRACE.
Quiero to know if I can obtain better results.
Gracias.

30/07/2003

Miguel Angel Squares Calderòn
Peru

Dear Carlos:
Soy veterinary doctor. I work in farms of pigs in the region of Arequipa, Peru.
Te responds this way: Do you produce meat or foot of breeding? In the first place, to use a male Pic here in Peru is prolificidad symptom, since the litter sizes overcome the total born figure of 11.5. But it is also symptom of bad conformation, since their use only gets used when the production this dedicated to sausages, more if it is dedicated directly to courts or sale to the public the meat quality it is a great inconvenience. Here in Peru we use most of farms, crossing males Pietrain*Belga-Duroc, the quality of the meat is not only excellent: it doesn't present any inconvenience about the quality of the meat. As experience I comment you that using this type of male Pietrain*Belga-Duroc in female Pic, it is the best crossing fact until the moment, and it is a new innovation in Peru. If there is not a lot from where to choose, I will also tell you as experience that the crossing Yorkshire or Landrace like male in female Pic (C-22) he/she would give you better result, they are not only more fruitful, but rather it improves the production of milk in the pigs. This is already noticed from the first childbirth (60 kg. as average of weight to the weaning).
Sin bigger detail, I wait they serve you these humble advice. Luck. Miguel Angel Squares Calderón M.V.Z.

30/07/2003

Carlos Rivas
Guatemala

I thank You a lot your answer. Notice that in my case I have a male PIC and sows YORK, then what I look for is to take out pigs for it puts on weight and to be able to sell meat, not foot of BREEDING!!! I tell you that the foot of breeding always believes that they would be good for people that want to fatten pigs. Now, when he/she needs to replace the sows, you would have to bring of another side sows YORK. Not you if this is well, or you believe that the breedings that leave this crossing (PIC - YORK) it would be good to cross them with PIC nuevamente?
Te I thank your help a lot, and he/she wanted to see if you can share with me your experiences in the handling of pigs (it weans, gestation, put on weight).

07/08/2003

Miguel Angel Squares Calderòn
Peru

Dear Carlos:
Tienes a male Pic and female Yorkshire. At this time, you are the envy of any Peruvian porcicultor. Female Yorkshire is it that less we have ,y here they are looked for as needle in a barn. Any doubt that you have, will be a pleasure for me to respond you, so much on the sanitary thing as that of handling and feeding. This crossing that you have he/she doesn't give animals of good meat conformation, it is much more profitable if it is dedicated to sausages, because to the benefit of these animals they go out with excess of fat. But of course that yes you can use another male Pic to the crossing of Pic with Yorkshire. I comment you and already the sabés maybe that the female Pic is fruitful but they are not good milkmaids. However, if you had the form of acquiring a Landrace like male in the future to restore your pigs, it would not be bad idea. Here in Peru with our crossings of Yorkshire-Landrace have litters from 11.5 to the birth, and in many farms the weaning overcomes the annual average of 10.2 weaned by sow, with the additional advantage that this crossing allows us to arrive until the eighth and tenth childbirth in the best in the cases, without the production diminishes. Not you in Guatemala what a production averages is managed. If you could be what origin they have your Yorkshire, he/she would thank it to you very much.
Espero to have been useful this time. Greetings. I say goodbye.

07/08/2003

Carlos Rivas
Guatemala

I thank You a lot your answer and help. As I see what you tell me it is that the crossing of PIC with YORK would be occurring animal with much fattier than the LANDRACE with YORK... In relation to what you ask of the YORK in Guatemala, here have races like YORK, LANDRACE, PIC and some hybrid ones. Notice that I had planned to make this crossing because these PIC reaches quicker the weight of 200 pounds to take out it to the market. But as I see, if I will be taking out a very greasy animal, the butcher doesn't believe that it will be very happy. With what you count me, not you if better to miscarry the project and to enter a male LANDRACE. What I would like to know is how long it takes you to take out to the market a pig, from the moment of the birth with this crossing (LANDRACE-YORKSHIRE), since with the PIC it is smaller time. I have as 6 months of having begun in this, and I don't want to fail in the project. If you could help me with some manuals on vaccination calendars, handling, facilities... I have planned to make some facilities for approximately 60 pigs of it puts on weight and 10 pigs for gestation. Not you if you could help me with these planes. They have commented me that it is good to fatten pigs individually, it is así?
Gracias.

08/08/2003

Pedro González Towers
Mexico

Dear Carlos:
Yo is MVZ and work in the production of pigs. We use male PIC with hybrid females (York-Landrace), and we have very good results to take out pigs for market with less fatty. What you made for me is good election, since the PIC helps you to take out your quicker animals and of good quality. And don't worry about the York: it is more meager than the Landrace. If you put a sire Landrace it is to obtain foot of breeding, since the daughters have a potential adapted by the hybrid thing to raise, it doesn't stop market that is what you look for. Especially, we have PIC 406 Elite. There are other better ones, but they have an inconvenience, since they produce very meager pigs, but they have the gene of the caloric stress. We are selling pigs of 5 months and 1 week of 94 kg.
Espero that has served you my answer. Attn.

MVZ Pedro

19/08/2003

Miguel Angel Squares Calderòn
Peru

Dear Carlos:
Disculpa for the delay when responding. When I commented you that the crossing Yorkshire-Landrace is used enough in my country, I mean that we use it from the point of view of pigs. To this crossing we add him a male Pietrain*Belga-Duroc. The pigs are extremely meager, with pesos of 88 to 90 kg. at the 148 to 150 days (5 months). Here in the Peru we don't have problem some with gene Halotano, stress, etc. If you plan to send to the camal these crossings because you don't have other options, be not discouraged: same the business is profitable (sausages). On the crossings Yorkshire-Landrace or Pic-Yorkshire or Pic-Landrace, the difference of the three won't feel it, as much in fat as in conformation and assurances of the carcasas. The speed of growth of the line Pic is seemingly bigger, only seemingly because they have the longest previous and later members. Obviously you observe them bigger, while the crossing of which I comment you here in Peru has short members and small head (same Belgian or Pietrain) and an immense back that seems a table. The male has a lot to see in the conformation of the pigs sent to the camal. The weight is only question of having to the hand some good nutritious formulas and orderly matter. I don't blindfold any line neither anything. We are a farm like the many that there is, for what I want to be taken neutral in my opinion. To begin a swinish production with pigs to the camal is only the most intelligent thing. Then you introduce the pigs, but neither delay a lot. If I can help you with planes and what you want, send me your mail.
Espero to have helped you in something.

17/11/2003

Paul loayza king
Ecuador

Dear Carlos: I am Paul Loayza, veterinary doctor from Ecuador, specialist in animal reproduction. I have a center of swinish artificial insemination with seven hogs. With regard to your question, I comment you that what is using in the world like mothers are the crossings of female Yorkshire x Landrace. With it is achieved it maximum prolificidad and maternal aptitude. If you possess pure copies York or Landrace, you recomiento that the crosses to each other and obtain the ideal f1. Then, if you possess a male Pic (of which line not one has). We have a 402 and it is terrible in quality of semen for IA. However it is an animal that transmits a very good gain of weight, but if the feeding of its descendants is highly energy, they spread to be fatty. What we are making here is to cross with Duroc and to achieve the maximum thing in meat quality. If what is looked for is that, the crossings with Pietrain cigar are extremely delicate, these males are only used in crossings to obtain male terminadores, like it is the case of the friend from Peru that uses it in crossing Pietrain Belgian x x Duroc. In conclusion, if what you look for is meat quality, I recommend you the Duroc or the male Pic 362, and if you look for conformation, it uses a terminador.
Suerte in your work.

17/11/2003

Paul loayza king
Ecuador

The Pic is not a race, they are exemplary hybrid obtained of the crossing of several genetic lines.

19/11/2003

gustavo moral ernesto paints
Mexico

Dear friends: I have been reading their answers to the topic, which have been very interesting and valuable. He/she wanted to comment them some my experience. I have a farm of 200 stomaches, we use Pic, female c-22 and male Pic-406 at the beginning. What we obtained was a meager pig, but I cut in speed of growth. We look for speed, conversion and conformation. With the female we had many problems with the assurances and problems of condition of females. We have a hot climate, so the ingesta is very little and we use high foods in energy. We change our genetic line at the moment to Genetiporc, a Canadian company, which uses female f1 (York/Landrance) and terminal male Duroc or Duroc-Pietrain. At the moment we forget the problems with the c-22, we have more born alive, better pesos to the birth that you leave in the whole cycle of it fattens it, taking out animals of 110kg in 156 days average. This with the male Duroc that gives you a meat of excellent quality and yield in surprising channel, bigger to the crossings of terminals with blood Pietrain. Returning to the females, I find that the best option is the f1 (Y/L).
Espero its comments. Greetings.

15/02/2004

Carlos Germán Galvis S.
Colombia

Hello to all. What forum so interesting the one that you/they have here. I would like to contribute my experience: In the farm we have sows F1, Landrace and Pietrain and reproductive D`kal (not you if the spelling is the correct one), and sows of the daughters' of the Pietrain substitution have been left. The result has been pigs of excellent volume in ham and loins, very meager and with some conversions below 2.4 (we prepare the food). The animals are taken from of the cages of pre-baits to the 20 Kg, and in 95 days they are clever for the sacrifice. It is good to keep in mind that our climate is between the 25 and 28 centigrade degrees, with an altitude of 1600m on the level of the sea.

09/03/2004

José Rafael Ricaurte Contreras
Colombia

Hello to all. I am student of Accounting and Finances in the city of Cartagena (Colombia), and at the present time I have a friend that comes developing a porcícola of Berraco Pig with female Landrace. In my project I am interested in knowing many things, but for the time being I would like to know what a pig is PIC, from where that race is obtained, its characteristics as much in males as in females. Also the same envelope well-known male's crossing here as DUPI (Durok + Pietran).
Attn.

Dionis Manuel Mounts Hernández

09/03/2004

gustavo moral ernesto paints
Mexico

The line Pic is animal hybrid that obtains this company, based on cruzamientos and genetic studies carried out by themselves. So one cannot speak properly of a race.

11/03/2004

JAVIER HERNANDEZ
Mexico

Dear friends: I am advisory and I have worked in multiplicadora of Baconmaker (Canadian York-Landrace), and I also advise farms with PIC and Genetipork. I can speak of failures in the genetic ones and also of successes. The important thing is that they are in contact with the houses that you/they sell the animals to be able to obtain the parameters that they offer us. If we spoke of parameters, I can comment them that we achieve with male Pic 406 elite and pigs breedings of Pic like autorremplazos and Camboro 22, 98 kg and 136 exact days of age. Each pig has the date of birth in the ear. A coefficient of variation of 6.7 among the pesos. What is what I want to tell them?: The best results are with hibridismo, never with pure or F1, since that found is the best thing of each one of the genetics. That crossing that you have of sow with maternal ability it is excellent, but the hog is the one that provides you so much the speed of growth like the meager thing. We achieve with PIC 58% of meager AVERAGE OF ALL THE PIGS, 10.2 mm of fat, and this still with autorremplazo pigs like foot of breeding bought to commercial house. The one that produces you fat is not always due to the genetics, it can have formulation problems (I consummate of the pig). Don't reach or surpass the necessities of nutritious. It revises with your food supplier. Not to compare with the other genetics because they have been a little below in results, but I don't want to be a judge neither it leaves. What you have in farm, exploit it, but it measures everything to be able to think if you can improve or to who you can demand him more. I have some consumption squares that can help you, but it is important that you elaborate yours of the farm to be able to speak with the one that formulates the portions. They are right: if you had a male of white line to be able to obtain your substitutions, and to these to cross them with a terminal male, and the one that you have is good. It exists and it is not forbidden neither it is anything bad, a product that improves the meager one, at the same time improvement the speed of growth and your conversion. Paylean is called and it is of laboratory Elanco. Accesa to the page and he/she can explain to you more. Here also we use it with excellent results. I don't BLINDFOLD ANYTHING NEITHER I HAVE COMMITMENTS WITH ANYBODY, everything is based on results.
Greetings.

24/03/2004

gustavo moral ernesto paints
Mexico

Dear Eduardo: You have female Pic. The best thing is to put them male Pic, since they are hybrid. These already bring inside their blood picket of Pietrain. You will have very good results. The worst thing that you can make is to make it of geneticist, they already made it for tí.
Greetings.

31/03/2004

JULY EDUARDO LION BEDOYA
Colombia

Thank you for the answer and to tell me that it is better the crossing of Pic with Pic. But I also want to know how a good food is made balanced for pigs.
I wait prompt answer.

27/04/2004

JAVIER HERNANDEZ
Mexico

PIC is a company (Pig Improving Company) that develops genetic lines. The sow for them is only one: the C-22, and the male depends on what you look for, you can have. All are lines and not pure. It pointed out them previously that the results with animal Pic, but the results with Genetipork have not been anything satisfactory. This is not that it doesn't work, but rather it has not been possible to provide that adapted for their development. The results with Baconmaker -now GEnesus - they are very good, but to market it is a little difficult, since the buyers are accustomed to white and not black animals. I would like them to outline the results of what you/they manage, but I insist: it is better to have hibridismo of 2 or 3 races, and not pure or F1, unless that we speak of foot of breeding.

28/04/2004

gustavo moral ernesto paints
Mexico

Javier, is interesting what you comment. I am managing Genetiporc, and I have had good results. Previously I managed Seghers, and at the present time I am having better results with Genetiporc. But I would like to hear your comments.

14/05/2004

JAVIER HERNANDEZ
Mexico

whenever they ask which the appropriate parameter is: the conversion doesn't only depend on the genetics. If the formula of the food is very slight, the pig will have to eat more to be able to win 1 meat kg. It is different if the diet is dense, the consumption diminishes and it improves the conversion. With good formulas, the conversion that would look for would be 2.4 weaning, 6 had concluded.

16/01/2005

Paul loayza king
Ecuador

Hello manuel,
He/she looks at them you formulate as such they get ready according to the foods that you prepare, he/she sends you the following chart on the nutritious composition of the different types of I think that they get ready:
Types of I think according to the productive category
Nutritious 1 * 2 3 4 5 6 7

Protein raw min 20 18 17 16 13.5 13 16
Humidity max. 13 for all
Fiber raw max 3 4 4 5 5 6 5
Ashy max 7 7 7 7 7 7 5
Fatty max 5 4 4 4 4 3 4
Lisina min 1.4 1.1 1 0.9 0.62 0.6 0.61
Met+Cist min 0.82 0.6 0.6 0.55 0.4 0.4 0.47
Treonina min 0.91 0.63 0.63 0.6 0.42 0.36 0.47
Lactose min 10 4

pp ..1 *. - predeste
2. - it weans
3. - initial
4. - growth
5. - it puts on weight
6. - gestation
7. - nursing
I wait it is of your help

21/01/2005

Gabriel Mallo
Argentina

Good Miguel, if it contributes something I use the following requirements to formulate diets for it puts on weight:
Early wean Phase 1 Phase 2 Phase 3
I weigh I live (lbs) 8 at 12 12 at 16 16 at 25 25 at 50
Rate of Growth (lbs) 0,32 0,46 0,84 1,3
Convesión Aliment 1,05 1,18 1,32 1,58
Consumption To the one. (lbs / day) 0,35 0,65 1 2,05
Energy Digest (kcal/kg) 3500 3490 3459 3450
NRC ME (EM - KCAL/LBS) 1580 1580 1560 1560
Lactose 19 16 7,5 0
Fat 6 at 8 4 at 7 3 at 6 3 at 6
Protein (max) 25 23,5 22,5 21,5
Lis Tot 1,7 1,5 1,35 1,24
Lis Dig
Rel LisTot/EM 4,8 4,3 3,95 3,57
Met Tot 0,46 0,4 0,36 0,32
Met+Cis Tot 0,97 0,85 0,77 0,68
Treo Tot 1,05 0,93 0,84 0,74
Tripto Tot 0,31 0,27 0,24 0,22
Val Tot 1,16 1,02 0,92 0,82
Isoleu Tot 0,94 0,82 0,74 0,66
Calcium 1 at 1,05 0,95 at 1 0,88 at 0,93 0,80 at 0,85
Match Tot 0,79 0,76 0,73 0,71
Match Disp 0,55 0,52 0,47 0,42
Rel Fosfo Disp/EM 1,58 1,5 1,37 1,22
Sodium 0,35 at 70 0,35 at 6 0,25 at 0,4 0,25 at 0,4
Chlorine 0,54 0,54 0,39 0,39
Salt 0,5 0,45 0,45 0,45
Potassium 0,7 0,7 0,65 0,65

For the categories dedicated to consumption you cannot use high proportion of fish flour, because you would be conferring him their flavor to the pig meat. But it is an excellent matter it prevails for Prestarter and Starter, as well as for reproducers in general. I find that to make some viable diet at low cost you would need some hna. of soya.
Of the matters cousins that you have available you should have a tentative nutritional profile to be able to adjust a diet in an efficient way and the cost to formulate for minimum cost.
M.V. Gabriel Mallo

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