Pig Industry - Article: Production of Biogas–you Plant Centralized and Simplified - Management


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12/10/2006

Christian Rodriguez
Peru

Mr. Victor Cantaredo:
Interesting their point of view as for their experience in the handling of plants UASB. Definitively it is a reality in which is only to congratulate these people. However, I would like to share some experiences that have been reason of collapses in some Biodigestores UASB:

1) it lacks of Purges of the Mud Anaerobio
2) lack of Maintenance of Units Desarenadoras / Desnatadores (Trat. Primary) and colmatación of the Digestor (partial)
3) I increase of the flow and consequently, loss of Biomass
4) error in the pH control

Dice the small times of retention, the last two errors can represent a serious problem, and even the total paralización of the Digestor (exactly where the human error is critical).
Well, with regard to the other topic, that of the green funds, is only to recognize that over there, they are also come that class of speculators. Let us hope our countries have the enough approach to conform mechanisms that allow to collect certificates of smaller quantity, and that they can be offered to a fairrer price (not you if to international price, but if something more than what you/they offer us...).
Rather, I had left the doubt of the characterization of the Efluente that has for their project...
Would he/she have some data, like to show a typical project of UASB? Talvez the DBO (it Demands Biochemistry of Oxygen), and some other fact (Total Solids, Fat and Oils, etc), more than anything to illustrate to the forum of the parameters that you/they are managed for a digestor of this type.

Very grateful, and greetings from Peú.

12/10/2006

virgilio samniego
Panama

Somebody could say, or especially Jorge Samaniego of Sinaloa that I see that it manages the similar matter to what I am taking place, how to build one for my property. I don't think of something industrial, but in giving him I use to the swinish waste of my farm that are enough. Greetings, and I thank them.

13/10/2006

Alvaro Velasquez Vallejo
Colombia

Very interesting the articles on the production of Biogas, but it doesn't contribute anything from knowledge to the field since it doesn't present the simplified form of a biodigestor that serves most of peasants and farmers that need with urgency this system in our country *Colombia taking place) FOR THEIR PROPERTIES, and that they can be built in economic form, and, it is only spoken of enormous plants with some unreachable, very interesting costs if, but for a future. Thank you.

Alvaro Velasquez

13/10/2006

Roberto Montanaro
Argentina

Sr.Alvaro Velazquez Vallejos: Good morning, if you believe that the forums of Production of biogas don't give knowledge for the peasants and farmers colombianos,diganos that technical concepts want that we expose to give solutions urgentes,estos forums they began to outline the temario and to expand it for Latin America, there are regions that use these systems in homemade form and they work, but not for we will stop it to inform that they exist systems of high and medium technology at the present time in the world, I believe that yá has been too much silenced the Latin Americans with the disinformation, we have too potential human that next to our nature not so polluted (like in the industrialized countries )podemos to develop, its concern is the peasants and Colombian farmers, I agree and I find very praiseworthy its posición,pero cannot discredit I lower any point of view the time and the profesionalidad that the participants prepare since exactly in these forums one of the reasons of the precarización of the system it is THE DESINFORMACION.Muchas thank you to read me.

13/10/2006

Alvaro Velasquez Vallejo
Colombia

Dr Montanaro requests him excuses to be a little abrupt in my message. I consider that the topic that you have played is important, but very much, so important that this could change the parameters totally to continue in the entire world in the energy production, and not to stay resagados in the techniques that have been come projecting in countries but avazsados and that they don't look at the costs of this projects at the moment, in this I am being a little selfish to the solicitarunos economic projects within reach of our pockets, however these knowledge that you so kindly this diffusing is the base so that people begin to think of them, already to another bigger scale and level of a superior technology and nesesaria for our country and not to be stragglers. Continue ahead, but I also hope people as you contribute us knowledge about economic biodigestores to solve so many problems that we have in the field in these moments partly. Thank you and congratulations

Alvaro Velasquez Vallejo

13/10/2006

Victor
Nicaragua

good afternoon to the members of the Forum. Lament to have little time to share since is building several treatment systems in Republic Of the Dominican Republic for the humid beneficiary's of the coffee residual waters. These are systems that you/they go of small to relatively big.

I love them that all those that there are or we are working with biodigestores we had to go by small facilities: In the projects that he/she plays me to participate we build biodigestores domiciliares in fixed dome for you excrete human of 3 m3, until biodigestores in populations of 1,000 or but people. In the case of biodigestores for porquerizas or cattle raising have built biodigestores for 8-10 pigs and at the moment we are building in Nicaragua a system for 500 pigs. In Cattle raising I have also participated in projects of 3 cows and at the moment we integrate a system for 300 cows of I milk that they already incorporate the use of generating plants for energy. In our country the same as in many of you there is a discharge firewood demand to cook. For that reason in the rural areas it is what has but it demands.

The biodigestores that have been built in our project goes from biodigestores of tubular plastic that is well disseminated the technology on the part of the CIPAV in Colombia and there is a manual written by the Dr. Preston and the Engineer Lillyam Rodríguez where it is the step to step for their construction.

We have also built small membrane biodigestores like they are called that they are in short a box of 3 meters x 1.50 x 1.50 and with plastic ahulado that is used as bell.

At the moment we have opted to build biodigestores since in fixed dome they have but useful life. Although it is certain it is bigger the cost of initial investment but he/she is justified for the prevention of damages to the plastic. alone I will make it indexes a little anecdotic of what happened with a biodigestor in a porqueriza of 20 pigs. A shepherd that took some goats happened and he wondered that it could happen if a goat fell in the grave where the biodigestor was. It is logical that it broke and there it finished the investment. with this I don't want to disqualify the biodigestores of plastic, since there are excellent experiences where the biodigestores already takes up to 3 installed years.

I believe that we all have a social and environmental responsibility in sharing, but a risk that one runs when the technology comes out given it is that when design errors are made or of installation it is accused to the technology by itself and not to the human error that we made. With the due respect I make a call of attention so that they respect us as professionals. I can give an example for the case. An ONG for not paying consultantship costs, even when we elaborate them the project, it hired one of the manufacturers that worked with us. the biodigestor didn't work, simply for 20 centimeters of difference in the placement of the pipe between the entrance box and the exit of the compensation box. Then they were attributing the blame to us.

To the Engineer Rodríguez I apologize him my but I eat I am not in Nicaragua I don't have the technical data of operation of the systems. We are not working with UASB, although I consider myself since pupil of the Dr. Lettinga I made a graduate degree in the Agricultural University of Wageningen. We are working with biodigestores of fixed dome and it stops the beneficiary's of coffee residual waters with Reactors Anaeróbicos in Upward Flow that we pack with bamboo or volcanic stone as support material.

To the interested ones in plastic biodigestores of Colombia believe that they have an entire school that he/she can help them and it is that of the CIPAV that is in Cali and that I had the opportunity to visit. Contact the Dr. Alvaro Zapata or to the Engineer Carlos Mejía.

Forgive me to have extended me in my comments

Greetings

Victor Cantarero

14/10/2006

Christian Rodriguez
Peru

he/she Really wanted to congratulate to all the particiapntes of the forum until this moment and to those that will come... I understand the passion of the words of the sr. Alvaro Velazquez. And I believe that the colleague's answer Montanaro has been the but appropriate. It is a reality that the energy demand in our countries, represents a restrictive one that diminishes the quality of the residents' of the field life. IF for some reason, this forum has not fulfilled the intention of satisfying that expectation, it is because it has been guided to show the possibility to see this topic beyond the dimension convensional (without minimizing it for any reason). The experiences of the CIPAV exist that has not been employee in a successful way alone here, but also in the Asia, specifically in the use I tame. And it is really very good. At the moment I have recommended it for a center of laundry of viscera in a rural area.
However, the small farmer's reality or breeder, are that smaller units (of earth or animals) it is in more unitary costs. The tendency of both realities, is to be able to increase the extensions of cultivated land and of livestock heads so that it is a bigger utility. Although this one can give low the outline of Big Latifundistas, Companies AgroIndustirales, one can also give low outlines of Cooperatives that join several proprietors' efforts with an eye toward improving their condition. Here in the Peru, they exist (although they are few) very successful cooperative agricultural that obtains very good dividends when having added efforts and divided costs. In the same way, the sanitary topic / environmental it is a topic that it is worthwhile to consider it in the outline of Industrial handling (for the same reasons).
Alone to finish, he/she would invite all the small agricultural proprietors to that you/they meditate the alternative of gathering efforts with their neighbors it stops this way to improve the quality of life of all.
Honestly, I believe that it is the future of the field in our countries (and because it has already been given in the developed countries)

Greetings to all.

15/10/2006

Christian Rodriguez
Peru

Dear Victor Cantaredo:
Excuse if in my vehemence to answer him, I confused some terms, based on the first description of their Biodigestores. Here in the Peru (and if bad I don't also make a mistake in Bolivia) the I finish Reactors Anaerobicos of Upward Flow (RAFA) it is the equivalent one to UASB. For the description that details of their Biodigestor for the vinaza of the coffee, this he/she would come to be a Filter channel Anaerobico Fluidizado or a Reactor of Fixed Movie?
The difference would reside in the factor of definition of the contact surface.
Now a point that I forget to consult him previously is if the addition of manures obeys a premeditated intent of balancing the relationship of nutritious to the load of Carbon / Nitrogen.

Good, I say goodbye with a strong hug and while waiting for being able to converse but on the systems UASB and of the good Doctor Lettinga (their main instigator).

Greetings

17/10/2006

raul contreras
Guatemala

For Ronald of Peace of Guatemala.
Hello to all. I congratulate them for their participation and I thank all the comments, I am working with bovine in Guatemala and he/she wanted to also ask to Ronald of Peace of Guatemala where I can see the systems that he/she mentions in our country. Thank you.

18/10/2006

Edwin Ramirez
Guatemala

Don Ronald (of Guatemala), the same as you are interested in knowing but on this topic. However, I understand that you have already seen the operation of some biodigestores (handmade) here in Guate. I wanted me to indicate if some exists of this near biodigestores to the city or Santa Rosa's area that I can have the opportunity to see. I will thank him a lot.

greetings,

Engineer Edwin Ramirez

21/10/2006

Enzo Landivar
Bolivia

Dear Engineer Roberto Montanaro,

Our company, Poultry Carger of Santa Cruz, Oriental Republic of Bolivia, this facing a project for the construction of a simple plant without heating for cogenerar energy with the use of the gallinaza taken place by 180.000 birds confined in cages.

The design of the project this in charge of the Dr. Gabriel Moncaya of www.Aqualimpia.com who has a lot of experience in this rubo and it has encouraged us to autosustentar the electric power consumption and caloric of the company.

Everything goes according to that projected, however, we have tripped with the inconvenience that there is not any supplier of the generating team of electric power that works with biogas, in our country alone we have gotten some that work with GLP or diesel transformed to different makers' gas.

Based on their expericia which is but advised and that maker?

I thank their answer ahead of time.

Greetings,

ENZO LANDIVAR B.
Poultry Carger

25/10/2006

Angel Towers
Venezuela

Engineer Roberto Montanaro, is possible to use the use of the biodigestores to produce gas to great scale, or to take place enough for the internal consumption of a city, using the waste of served waters.

I tell it to him because at the moment we are in the beginning of the time of gold of the natural gas, according to the publication of the magazine Oil Field Review of Shulumber 2003. Although not you if the composition of the biogas is similar or similar to that of the natural gas. In the article it is commented that the demand will duplicate the production the consumption of this, and they will look for new technologies for the obtaining of natural gas, to be able to cover the deficit of gas from the year 80.

My other question: it is possible to liquefy the biogas, and to take it in liquid products for their best use.

He/she would thank him their prompt answer.

25/10/2006

virgilio samniego
Panama

Man, somebody that explains to me in an understandable way, me as producer, as if I produce pig manure and of bovine livestock, how to make that a biodigestor takes place gas methane, I will thank them, without stylized answers that truly I come them reading, and he/she becomes a biochemistry class. And if somebody wants to charge the consultancy, because we go, tell me how much it is, and I will prepare their trip to my project.
Greetings.

27/10/2006

Christian Rodriguez
Peru

Mr. Enzo:
I am early to my colleague Montanaro, in responding to their requirement, but I make it with good intention (it is not inconvenienced, my dear Roberto!).
At the moment, a company that produces Electric Generators exclusively to Biogas doesn't exist. In the India (where the use of the Biogas is much more extended), some companies are had dedicated exclusively to the adaptation of motors to this fuel. Also in Europe, the technology of the Natural Gas has come closer a lot to the possibility of covering this demand, but they don't conform an unique line. Rather, grateful companies in this item (Caterpillar, Volvo Penta, FG Wilson, etc), they carry out some modifications to their system of Admission, so that it is possible the cogeneration (that is to say, the partial substitution of the diesel for the biogas). In some cases, it is possible the total substitution, although after the outburst that is inevitably with diesel. I have understood that for these case, some recommendations exist to improve the useful life of the motor, I eat for example, to reduce the quantity of H2S to avoid the internal corrosion, or to replace with more frequency the lubricant oil.
Several works published in this sense exist, but it is important to begin analyzing the quality of their biogas. There are processes in those which, the relationship Metano/Dióxido is high, for what there would not be any problem. However, in inverse case, it is possible that he/she requires to decrease the content of dioxide by means of a scrubber, or to vary the characteristics of the digestion anaeróbica to maintain this relationship in the appropriate range.
To personal way, I consider that the alternative of the cogeneration is the most appropriate, when allowing the use of diesel as emergency, in the event of requiring to give maintenance to the digestor and to cut the supply of biogas for some time. In this same sense, I don't doubt that the groups Caterpillar fulfills this made very well.

I not say goodbye without before to apologize again to Roberto, and wishing him successes in their project.

27/10/2006

Alvaro Velasquez Vallejo
Colombia

Dr Christian Rodriguez, I congratulate Him for their comments about the production of gas methane and their applications at world level. This makes us put the feet on the earth about the knowledge on the advances to produce energy. People as you and the Dr Montanaro enriches this forum so important for people's thousands that are pending of this topic.
Thank you.

Alvaro Velasquez V.

27/10/2006

Enzo Landivar
Bolivia

Dear Mr. Christian,

I thank him for their disinterested comments about my consultation, which I don't have the smallest doubt won't disturb their colleague Montanaro to who I went initially, also, as this it is a forum, the good advice are always welcome.

To the date I have contacted to the company PALMERO of Argentina, and they are offering me a such solution which you comment.

The other details of their recommendation will keep them in mind, once position in march the digestor, and it will be for me a satisfaction to be able to comment it through this means to the whole community of Engormix involved in the use of renewable energy.

Thank you again, and until the next one.

27/10/2006

Roberto Montanaro
Argentina

good morning to all, a thousand excuses for not being able to participate actively in this forum that really me full with pride to be able to read them and to follow aprendiendo,no bothers me at all the excellent participation of the Engineer Rodriguez and of the other foristas, I believe that the objective is to inform in form interdiciplinaria, not to mix concepts and consequently to simplify the respuestas.El Engineer Rodriguez is exactly a professional dedicated in great form to the thematic of this forum for ende its participation this but that authorized to respond as he/she is carrying out it, it is not of my incumbency certain technical aspects that undoubtedly the Engineer Rodriguez develops with high professional level but there that the questions go guided toward my person, if you observe the development of the forum most of the consultations they have been evacuated, they exist details or isolated questions that difficultly are responded reason they can distort the objective of the same one, but in definitive we are beginning to debate topics of deep interest, to know us among producers, colleagues, educational, that is to say all the people that want to develop work projects in the zootecnía.
Another time a thousand excuses for not having participated activamente,pero believe that the forum is very well guided and with an excellent orientation that is the one of informing for crear.Muchas Thank you to read me.
Engineer Roberto Montanaro
International consultant

03/11/2006

Hernando King
Chile

Sr.Roberto Montanaro

I write him for the following thing, my intention is to make a study of produccioin of biogas for cogeneration, and my intention due to the high efficiency and at the short times of retention, it is to include a system Uasb in the project. Also esotoy conciente of the problems that could present the biodigestor with regard to on loads, speed of not very appropriate circulation, etc. therefore wanted to know if with a PLC it would be enough to control the different variables that would influence in a flaw of the reactor or maybe need an automatic but robust control.
Also quiesiera to know the material but convenient and economic of construirun Uasb.

For their time thank you.

15/12/2006

Rodrigo Wayland
Chile

he/she Wanted to congratulate the Sr Montanaro for this escelente I articulate on biogas.
In my company Traderandino contruye plants of biogas using tuna yokels (nopal) as fuel and there is obtaining excellent results, the produced methane doesn't have sour sulfhidrico (H2S)y the times of retention are inferior to 15 days. giving a methane of 7.000 kcl / m3, about 350 m3 / Rhyme BS. The main advantage is that it is not necessary use of teams but expensive with protection for the H2S. I wait this topic it is of vuetros interest and he/she can receive their consultations. I think that this process and matter prevails he/she makes that the business of the biogas and the barriers as for cost and matter diposicion you prevails reducan drastically.
Greetings

19/12/2006

Marizadellys Díaz
Venezuela

Very good.
Engineer Cristian Rodriguez, receive a cordial greeting on my behalf. Is the present to ask him like it affects the conditions of pressure in the process of digestion anaeròbico? I thank him ahead of time the information that can give.
Existos in their projects and many Blessings are received by you and their family in this navidad and for the coming years...

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