Pig Industry - Article: New technologies in the acidificantes use in water and in foods - Nutrition


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01/09/2005

Engormix.com
Argentina

Article: New technologies in the acidificantes use in water and in foods

In this forum comments are made on the technical article

Nuevas technologies in the acidificantes use in water and in foods

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02/09/2005

Zully Valencia
Canada

Another inconvenience of using acidificantes in the water in the nutrition of swinish is the corrosive effect of the acids on the infrastructure of the porqueriza (pipe of water and floors of the corrals).

02/09/2005

john jairo hernandez martinez
Colombia

John Jairo Hernandez M.
Engineer Foods Colombia.

Me parec interesting emuy this article, and I would like to know what dosage to use for liter of water. Do I believe that it is very good to reduce problems entéricos in lechoneras.

02/09/2005

Leonardo Silva
Colombia

How so possible it is to use the same gastric juice that takes place in the stomach of the pigs like acidificantes of the foods before being given them to the pigs? Is something like that as what is made with the contained ruminal of the cows to increase the level of bacterias in the rumen of the calves pre and posdestetos so that it is less traumatic the assimilation in the nutrition with grasses?

02/09/2005

Anselmo Pérez
Argentina

Excellent the article, very clear the explanations. It would be interesting some detail, on the proportions to use, as likewise commercial names in the market.

03/09/2005

jose yemez
Venezuela

Friend Zuli Valencia, is acidificantes like the bolifor that are not corrosive, that is to say that the troughs will be healthy. In any event, this is since an investment you would be reducing the rate of mortality and you would diminish the expenses in antibiotics to combat the enteritis, since with the acidificante you would be preventing it, but not controlling it, and you could change the pipes every three years in case there is corrosion of the same ones.
This article is to the pig hair (buenísimo). Thank you for their information.

04/09/2005

mendez
Costa Rica

I find quite interesting, I would only like to know the dosificasiones for liter of water, and a more specific information that allows to the producer the correct use of the acidificantes.

05/09/2005

rafael menendez
Argentina

The acidificantes use in the water As much in the poultry keeping as in pigs - is it intensifying more and more in big hatcheries, but would the interesting thing be to begin to measure the use of vinegar (acetic acid) to 0,05-o,1 incorporate% to the portion did foresee to the consumption, since at the present time I have not found works with this input type.

06/09/2005

Juan Carlos Ritrovato
Argentina

Friends of Engormix:
In my experience the recommendation of the use of liquid acidificantes in the drink water is from 0.1% to 0.2%. This is the recommendation for Bolifor. The advantages of using products based on sour fórmico that besides acidifying the water, with all the advantages that he/she has as we can read in the article, he/she has a strong effect germicide, in particular on salmonella, and we all know the important thing about this. Neither the acetic one neither the lactic one have these advantages. For Leonardo Silva who asked about the possibility of the use of gastric juices that in particular is the HCL, he/she wanted to comment him that in the bibliographical revisions that I have made on the topic, the few works in those that you quizo to use this acid in the diets of pigs, they should use big quantities of the same one to achieve similar effects to those of the fórmico, but in all the cases, it affected them negatively the consumption of
food. The truth that I don't advise it to you.
The other advantage of the Bolifor is that to the being an ac. fórmico amonificado, makes that it is not corrosive, as well José Yemez said.
In the practice, for those who don't want to get complicated with the application of liquid acids, there is alternative of solid formulations. Kemira, in the formulation of the products Bolifor solids, uses as carrier the diatomea lands. This is a three-dimensional structure that houses the acid in their interior, implying a slow liberation inside the animal. They have also demonstrated that this carrier is also micotoxinas secuestrante. There are very interesting works as much in poultry keeping as in pigs.
Greetings,

Engineer Agr. Juan M. Hernández Vieyra

06/09/2005

Leonardo Silva
Colombia

Engineer, thank you for the explanation. I thought that the effect could be the same one in swinish that in bovine.
Greetings,

Leonardo Silva

06/09/2005

ewilmer perez
Venezuela

I congratulate You, your investigation is important in the feeding and care of the pigs. I would like to know of what it forms you implant and you add the adificantes. Of equal it forms, luck and success in all your following investigations.

06/09/2005

José Antonio Gressi Lopez
Costa Rica

José Gressi
Small breeder of corral birds
Guatemala

He/she wanted that somebody indicated me the effects on the flavor of the water of the elements acidulantes, if the corral birds don't feel the effect and they drink less due to the palatabilidad of the water.

07/09/2005

Juan Carlos Ritrovato
Argentina

Dear Ewilmer: the acidificantes application in drink water one can make by means of bombs proportional dosificadoras moved by the same pressure of the water. There are some more resistant models for organic acids. It is very simple. The solid product is even easier, since he/she mixes directly in the food. The good effect would be combining the dosage in the water and in solid form inside the food. In results of rehearsals that we have made in poultry keeping, this combination was superior in terms of FCR.
For José Gressi, in poultry keeping with the proportions that we spoke before, is not problems to the consumption. This was in the rehearsals that he/she made Kemira with liquid acids in water.
Greetings,

Engineer Agr. Juan M. Hernandez Vieyra

12/09/2005

rafael menendez
Argentina

Dear friends:
We will begin a rehearsal with the use like acidificante to the acetic acid (vinegar), dedido to their property chemical disociativa that is what produces an effect germicide, but, what is looked for is not to STERILIZE the foods, but reducing the bacterias potentially dangerous as E. coli, and this way to prevent the diarrheas.
The vinegar is very recommended by the doctors, it even played a preponderant paper in the fight against the so much cholera in the Argentinean north, Bolivia and Peru.
In the human diet, it is recommended as antiseptic for the vegetables, in the refrigerating industry, sausages and pickles as you preserve yourself of foods he/she has a preponderant list.
The lactic acid has a power very interesting antisèptico, since it is using it to him as germicide in the sealers for milked cows, and they don't injure the fabric epitelial plane simple queratinizado of the nipples.
The topic gives for while but when he/she has the reports, then we will present them the results.
Until the turn

13/09/2005

Juan Carlos Ritrovato
Argentina

Dear Rafael,
He/she wanted to comment you the following thing. In more measure, the purpose of using acidificantes in the so much diets of pigs like of birds it is to improve the digestibilidad of the food, lowering the capacity buffer of the same one, that which would make that it is less not digested food, and consequently the ¨alimento¨disponible decrease for bacterias causing patógenas of diarrheas. This is it they would make the weak acids as the lactic one. But if the same preservative is also an efficient germicide that reduces the risk of contamination with salmonella, also controlling in direct form the bacterias patógenas, it is even better.
The acetic one is very commonly used in the kitchen due to several main causes. It is the acid that is in all the kitchens, and it is very easy of managing. But it is also certain that the bacterial challenge in a kitchen is much smaller that the one that podés to find in a hatchery or in a galpón of chickens, or its respective plants of foods. In the event of more patógenos challenges other types of products are recommended, even in the kitchen (in some cases strong acids or their salts are recommended as hipoclorito of sodium).
The lactic one is a very interesting acid to use, it is also relatively easy of managing, and although he/she has a near pKa to the fórmico (3.83 vs 3.75), it is not effective in the control of the bacterias in direct form.
There is a very interesting revision from Kirchgessner et to the one. (1992) (Journal Animal of Physiology Animal and Nutrition 67, 101-110), in which you/they are analyzed and they compare these acids with the fórmico, in which it is seen that many more kilos were needed with both to achieve similar effects in efficiency of conversion y/o gain of weight in pigs. We speak approximately of 2 vs 0.6.
Good, it would be that nomás. When you have the results you comment us.
A hug.

JUAN
Engineer Agr. Juan M. Hernández Vieyra
Technical Manager

ARGENT EXPORT CORP.
TE:++54-11-47304700
E-mail: jmhv@argenexport.com.ar

13/09/2005

Mario Fernandez
Colombia

Very good the I articulate, but do I have a doubt, Because it is not spoken of the citric acid and the ascorbic USP for the acidification of the food or the drink water. Thank you.

18/09/2005

luis kingfisher marin gil
Colombia

How well for the article and all the investigations that are made in benefit of the agriculture, since this is the main line of the economy after the industrial one.
I have a question and it is the following one: how many samplings of water were they made, do have more than enough what types of waters and floors, temperatures and heights on the level of the sea, to define the pH and to conclude the acidificantes use in the type of exploitation to continue?
Cordial greeting,

MARTIN

19/09/2005

Miguel Angel Rosemary Lopez
Spain

For Rafael Méndez:
Indeed some rehearsals have existed for about 10 years with positive experiences with the vinegar (5% of acetic acid). The problem will be the high doses of incorporation of vinegar.
The industrial proposal is the acidificantes use adapted to the drink water.
A greeting.

Miguel Angel Rosemary

21/09/2005

jose yemez
Venezuela

Friend Angel: I have a doubt regarding the pipes, if the same ones are stainless, which the time of corrosion would be because in the country property I have a 2 of mortality for enteritis and I need to compare the costs for investment in pipes, the time of duration and the profitability with regard to the mortality, and before using this product he/she wanted to know if it is within your reach that of efficiency that the pigs increase of it feeds and weaned, since all know that the acidificantes helps to a bigger absorption of nutritious, and in turn bigger conversion for their effects at gastrointestinal level.

22/09/2005

Miguel Angel Rosemary Lopez
Spain

For José Yémez.

Dear José,
If the pipes are made of stainless steel you won't have any problem of corrosion with the acidificantes use in the drink water. Nevertheless, it is possible that in some of the drinking troughs you have problems if some part of the same ones is not of inox, PVC or polipropileno.
EYE: attention NEVER to use water acidified in the laundry machine to pressure: HE/SHE WILL DIE YOUNG.
2% of mortality (I suppose that in the one it puts on weight) it is very acceptable in the context of the pathology in Spain and Portugal (it is it that better I know).
It is impossible to predict the profitability, but I can indicate you this example. THE initial pH of the water was of 5,9 and the end of 4,0. Acid is injected later to the water and 3 minutes he/she takes the sample of acidified water and this is sent to laboratory. In this case the turbidez of the water was correct (in some cases in those that the turbidez is high, it is advisable to combine the application of acids in the water with peroxides or chlorine).
With this acidification technique in drink water is foregone to control diarrheas for dysentery hemorrágica (Brachyspira hyodisenteriae) I half-close to 20-30 days. EYE, I only say to CONTROL thanks to a nutritional strategy.

	INICIAL	3 minutes port-acidifición
COLIFORMES	INCONTABLES	650
COLIFORMES	23	3
ESTREPTOCOCOS	40	2
SALMONELLAS	0	0
SHIGELLAS	0	0
CLOSTRIDIOS SULFITO REDUCERS	0	0

En this test with diarrheas in it puts on weight, you solucíonó quickly (he/she notices of index of diarrhea in each box from 0 to 5):

	INICIO ACDF.
	27/04/2002	29/04/2002	03/05/2002	10/05/2002	27/05/2002
A1	2	2	1	1
A2	2	1	1	0
A3	2	2	0	0
A4	1	0,5	0	0
A5	1	0	0	0
A6	1	1	1	0
A7	1	0,5	0	0
A8	1	0	1	0
A9	3	1	0	0
A10	2	1	0	0
A11	3	2	1	0
A12	2	0	0
TOTAL	21	11	5	1
MEDIA	1,75	0,92	0,42	0,08

	INICIO ACDF.
27/04/2002	29/04/2002	03/05/2002	10/05/2002	27/05/2002
C1	4	3	1	0
C2	4	3	1	0
C3	4	2	0	0
C4 (enfermería)	4		2	1
C5	3	2	1	0
C6	3	2	0	0
C7 (enfermería)	4	3	2	1
C8	4	3	2	0
Total	3	0	2	2	9	2
Media	3,75	2,75	1,125	0,25

Como can see in this case, the acid application to pH 4.5 were very efectiva.Un saludo.Miguel Angel Rosemary

29/10/2005

Raúl Wilfredo Vine
Argentina

Very good the article. I believe that it would be good to detail the appropriate technology for the consultants that are producing peños, since it is an efficient and very economic system that is not always available for the common of the producers.
Thank you for their times and greetings from Jujuy, Argentina.

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