Pig Industry - Article: Evaluation of treatments with preservatives T1 (ractopamina Hydrochlorate) and T2 (Yeasts + lactobacilos) as factors... - Nutrition


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20/06/2006

Engormix.com
Argentina

Article: Evaluation of treatments with preservatives T1 (ractopamina Hydrochlorate) and T2 (Yeasts + lactobacilos) as factors...

In this forum comments are made on the technical article

Evaluación of 2 treatments with 2 preservatives T1 (ractopamina Hydrochlorate) and T2 (Yeasts + lactobacilos) as factors in the feeding costs and the nutritious conversion in finalización pigs

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20/06/2006

Victor Thin Alonso Bailon
Mé¸©co

How much is the cost of total production to sell pigs concluded to 100 kg of weight with this diet, applying it from the weaning to the finalización? Thank you. It is an excellent report and work the one that you carried out.

20/06/2006

Luis Shell
Mexico

Congratulations for the work and for the sincerity of the conclusions.

Luis Shell

20/06/2006

anibal brown arcila
Colombia

Interesting this type of works. However, the charts were not presented or graphic of the final results, therefore, not you how they reached the conclusions. Has been good to see them.
Greetings,

AAM

21/06/2006

Barrueta David
Venezuela

Interesting when they are carried out investigation works that look for or the results are guided to improve the animal production, and benefit to the cattle producers. I observe that it used two treatments, to my way of understanding, he/she obtained results for each treatment, but it lacked to compare them with the treatment witness or basal to generate the differences of the evaluated parameters.

23/06/2006

Victor War Rodriguez
Mexico

how's it going!! A great greeting to all the foristas.
Before anything, a gratefulness to all the people that contribute or they can contribute knowledge and comments to this publication.
As for the answer to the Engineer Victor Thin Alonso Bailon, looks at the calculations and costs of the diet are annexed here. 3 treatments were used: a basal one, a b-adrenérgico and one of probióticos. If you want your costs from an initiation production to the finalización, because they would be several calculations from treatments, stages, and the ingredients to use. ok. I recommend you to read the book of INRA. The Feeding Of Animal Monogastricos. Ed. Mundi-press, CORP., 1985. Mexico, 1992, so that you begin to carry out your own calculations, it depends on your ends and facilities.

23/06/2006

Victor War Rodriguez
Mexico

Dr. Luis Shell:
I thank him their comment, they are pleasing words that motivate to continue building things for the field that one exercises. A cordial greeting and it releases friendship.

23/06/2006

Victor War Rodriguez
Mexico

Engineer Anibal Arcila Moreno:
How's it going partner. A primary observation. The data of the results are not annexed my complete work since it is a little extensive, and I only wanted to give of a summarized way and useful didactics for all, my investigation.
And because the results were a final average of 100 kg of all the pigs, you can take out of there your own conclusions. Thank you for the comment.
Greetings!!!!!!!

23/06/2006

Victor War Rodriguez
Mexico

Engineer Barrueta David:
Dear colleague: the data here outlined they are a formulated basal diet completing the nutritional requirements outlined by the NRC 1998, and it was added to the diet a preservative promoter of the growth that you/they were two in total, to evaluate the feeding costs and the nutritious conversion, and with base to this the two preservatives were evaluated in the formulated diet, throwing the data exposed in this publication.
Greetings!!!!!!

23/06/2006

Victor War Rodriguez
Mexico

I Thank to all their comments and observations. I exhort you and other foristas that participate and they contribute here to the outlined.
Without but at the moment their friend and colleague
M.V.Z. VICTOR WAR RODRIGUEZ

27/06/2006

CARLOS ORTIZ CASTRATES
Guatemala

Dear Dr. War, I read the summary of its investigation work, and I consider under my point of view that you/they should clear up several aspects that can confuse the reader that I consider the following ones among the most excellent:
to. - The design of the investigation is not the correct one because:
a.1. - when distributing the repetitions he/she didn't take the effect of the sex, for what is not sure when obtaining the results that it was the treatment or the sex (example the treatment 2), that is to say, there are confused effects that you would only achieve them to control if you take the sex like another factor.
a.2. - the repetitions are not enough as to control the experimental error.

b. - I Consider that the discussion of the work is rather a literature revision.
c. - you cannot conclude that the effect of the probióticos depends on its dose, age, species and conditions of the exploitation, since factors that you evaluated in the present investigation were not.
d. - The levels of used lisina consider that they should go between 1.1 and 1.2 to obtain better results.
and. - he/she Wanted that you informed us which it was the concentration of ractopamina hydrochlorate that utlizaste in the work.

Lastly, he/she wanted to reiterate you that the objective of my observations is only to contribute something to the investigation, clearing is that it is from my point of view.
For the readers that have requested information, I suggest them that they read the article of Yoshio Iván Macswiney Roman on the use of B-Adrenérgicos like promoters of growth, it is very complete, máxime because it tries on the effect in the human health. And to the gentlemen of the paylean, I suggest them that they are not so apathetic and participate in this forum that is those that more they need.

27/06/2006

Victor War Rodriguez
Mexico

Atty. CARLOS ORTIZ CASTRATES:
Before anything, I thank their participation, and their points are good to recapture in this publication. It is true that you/they are still restlessness and doubts in this content, but like I come commenting, I have only exposed a part and in a brief way what I carried out in the investigation.
But I will talk about the points that he/she plays:
1° Yes, the design is not precise as soon as he/she refers to nutritious conversion, but yes as for feeding costs in the treatments.
2° as for the sex, I used males without castrating since through the handling with these copies that are F1 of the races (Yorkshire-Landrace), I have given myself it counts at least in my lines that develop a better conversion without carrying out them castration, and as for females, it is certain they develop a smaller growth in comparison to the males, also that in the 1er gpo. ractopamina was not used (females).
3° The number of repetitions is not in a significant way, it is only experimental that makes incite others to the continuation of this same process to give a new and improved rule.
4° as for the discussion, it is described perhaps as revision, but I would call it in a didactic way for any reader, call you (M.V.Z., Engineer, Lic, worker, peasant, producer).
5° Exposed this way again in the conclusion so that it is didactic to the reader, and the expressed thing this way since if we speak of probióticos like yeasts, it is spoken that it will depend on the concentration of alive microorganisms, that is to say that:
The yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae, he/she can have 3 variants, to mention an Ej: (Active yeast - viable Yeast with a count of 10 thousand to 20 thousand million alive cells for gram), then the probiótico used in the portion will depend on the concentration or used dose.
The age, because it is always decisive factor in several aspects to mention one (Pathological), depressing the immune system of the animal then this way, causing this way a low efficiency and therefore a low conversion index of the good one.
We know that if we speak of species, we will be speaking of physiologic processes that you/they will come being different in certain way. The exploitations are very important, and what you/they highlight more than them is the bioseguridad that is managed, and mainly the handling used each one of the production stages.
And because certain is, was not everything evaluated, but do tell me, how many investigations do they embrace all these aspects? One is not able to because of there it is like a bigger margin of experimental error arises.
6° The lisina levels those that you say can be or mine, there is not a lot of difference, and can I tell you that the one that I used is better than yours, and do you know why? Because my nutrients used in the work were of first quality, and of there important variations arise.
7° AND last, my ractopamina concentration is the one used in the labels of the product.
Good, I wait to have responded your restlessness, and again I thank your participation, and like I have expressed, I continue exhorting partners to participate in my work, since some things are not present since during the writing of the same one they could be passed. Until soon, and greetings to Guatemala.
Your partner and friend

M.V.Z. VICTOR WAR RODRIGUEZ

27/06/2006

Edgar Chi
Mexico

How terrible, how formidable work!!! Treatments with 4, 5 and 1 animal!!! How good position, neither to Steel and Torrie they would be happened a better position!!

28/06/2006

Victor War Rodriguez
Mexico

how's it going!!! Edgar Chi, very inadequate your expression. Although the experimental design here exposed it is minimum, it doesn't require an ingrate comment like yours.
I invite you to tí that, if you speak you have carried out this way surely wonderful things, why you don't outline them and you express your maximum activities and achievements in your profession.
Ehh, to criticize there that to demonstrate correct!!!! That it is you clear.
To me this small and pleasing investigation brought me many achievements and new discoveries that perhaps here are not outlined, but yes I also comment you that at the moment the same processes are taking that planted here in the investigation in Ranches of Michoacan, to be exact in the Pity, with taking of significant samples and that the results will say, ok.
He/she is appreciated your point of view, but above all it exists the respect and the kindness or way of saying the things. Until soon.

28/06/2006

Mr. Edgar Chi, with all respect, that type of expressions is outside of place. I believe that it is a great human effort that of this report, and that with a lot of pleasure and effort to carry out the work give it to know. I think that it is necessary to respect the presenters, and this continues growing day with day, because if we make this type of comments that to anything good they take, some other professionals can be inhibited in sharing their experiences. Excuse, but it is my form of thinking. Thank you.

28/06/2006

Victor War Rodriguez
Mexico

Ing Victor Thin Alonso Bailon,
It is very good to hear and to receive this type of comments, and I thank their participation.
And I consider that it is open this space to all, but that the respect should exist.
Thank you!!!!!!!!

04/07/2006

Hugo Saavedra
Venezuela

Esimado Mr. Victor War:
Ahead of time the fellicito for their investigation on alternative alimentary for the best meat conversion. We all walk in that search. On the other hand, based on their conclusions, he/she has not thought of working with enzymes (example: arabinaza, Beta-gluconasa, Proteasa, peptinasa, celulasa, etc), like an alternative to improve the digestibilidad of the animal, this way to achieve the best use in the food... and to consider it after the weaning, and inclusive I am happened to design a factorial treatment from 2 to 3 o'clock, combining the t1 and t2 respectively with the enzymes...
What do you say in this respect?
Greetings...

04/07/2006

adelfo lopez boy
Mexico

before anything else to wish them a happy day.
I consider that it is a not well guided work, since it is not possible to carry out a work of this nature just by ten animals, and mainly to reach a conclusion where bases are not had for such an effect. I cannot deceive them. He/she thought that it would be a good one I work the title since he/she says a lot, but the content not.
This type of articles before benefitting harms, since they induce to not reading articles that can be good.

04/07/2006

Victor War Rodriguez
Mexico

Engineer Hugo Saavedra:
Before anything, a cordial greeting, and I find good their idea. In fact, it was a proposal that he/she had already thought, but like I used pigs in finalización, my preservatives promoters of the growth were those proposed, but I don't discard an investigation with preservatives to increase the digestibilidad.
If you like you can comment me your proposals commenting me your ideas, alone he/she gives click on my name, ok, we see each other!!!

04/07/2006

Victor War Rodriguez
Mexico

Adelfo Lopez Boy,
A greeting. We will speak of your comment that I consider it imprudent and unnecessary, now yes, for me you get dressed as your last name, as a (boy) ok.
We will speak clear: anyone can speak of a scientific article, and comparing it with mine, and the truth is not same, and I consider that this work has a more comprehensible writing for all. That is my main objective that anyone that reads it the he/she understands, and if he/she has some restlessness, look for the way to be solved it, like I come expressing, it is made so that from a (producer, worker, atty., ing and mvz.) understand it clearly. And it is this way, I assure you that that that he/she has read my work has understood it, and perhaps with some queries as always will arise. And I will tell you why:
In a scientific article, they will always be based on what you/they are planning to find, and of there they won't leave. And in my investigation, I am outlining a wide panorama of factors that you/they intervene in this whole process. I will mention some: (Definition of preservatives, for what reason they serve, what a lactobacilo, a yeast, is what commercial impact it represents the swinish production, the why the feeding is an important factor in the costs of a production, what a b-adrenérgico is, how he/she thinks about a portion completing the requirements of an animal, and among other things.
Sew that in a scientific article you won't see it, be this way the best and with different experimental designs, ok. So I believe that I help more here with a writing like the outlined. And once and for all I will respond on the sample size that yes it is significant that the repetitions and other comments that have made or that they will make, and I comment them that like I mentioned previously, these positions are being carried out in other parts and they are working, and they have high validation degree. And to mention an example that the same thing is making that here thought about, he/she was carried out in another part with the same sample number, but with a great variation in the experimental design. The one outlined in this is a design conmutativo that, although it is minimum the sample number, is significant the result.
So partner Adelfo, first he/she learns how to understand reading, and later you say.
Greetings to all the foristas!!!

05/07/2006

Victor War Rodriguez
Mexico

Hello, how's it going to all. I see that they continue people that speak only to speak, leaving and the truth is good to receive comments of all type, good and bad, but he/she sometimes bores to read these words. If they end up being in the certain thing, they will have a good answer, and if I won't omit to give my comment. Thank you!!!!!!

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